Episode 21
Behind the Scenes of TikTok Fame: Singing, Algorithms, and the Business of Creativity
What really happens after you go viral?
On this episode of The Business Misfits podcast, host Melody Edwards sits down with the multi-talented Jenn Beaupre-aka Rozette-a celebrated vocal coach, singer, and performer who’s captured audiences from North America to Asia and everywhere in between. Together, they dive into what it means to be someone who forges their own path, prioritizing creativity, happiness, and human connection over the rigid formulas of mainstream success.
Jen shares the evolution of her career, from nurturing beginner singers to navigating viral moments on TikTok that transformed her client roster overnight. The conversation unpacks the tricky realities of building a purpose-driven business in the digital age, the ever-shifting algorithms of social media, and the vulnerability that comes with making a living from your passion.
They talk about:
- The myth of overnight success
- Imposter syndrome and creative self-doubt
- Why algorithm changes mess with your head
- Building a creative business that actually fits your life
- What it means to be “witnessed” in your work
If you’ve ever felt like you’re faking it online, drowning in visibility, or trying to run a business with duct-tape systems, this conversation is for you.
Learn more about Jenn: https://www.jennbeaupre.com/
Jenn's Vocal Coaching: https://linktr.ee/rozettesaaangs
Listen to Jenn's new Single 'Here' https://bfan.link/here-10
Follow Jenn on:
Youtube: @RozetteSaaangs
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/rozettesaaangs
Tiktok: https://www.tiktok.com/@rozettesaaangs
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/rozettesaaangs
All the music you heard on the show today was written and recorded by Melody Edwards.
Hey Bizfit! Let’s Stay Connected
Facebook: @businessmisfits
TikTok: @thebusinessmisfit
Instagram: @homeserviceva
Connect on LinkedIn: @melodysedwards
Find all my things: www.melodythings.com
Melody Edwards is a lifelong entrepreneur with a sparkly brain and a passion for building purpose-driven businesses. Over the past 25 years, she has successfully started, acquired, operated, and sold a variety of unconventional businesses, ultimately leading her to co-found HomeServiceVA.com with her first assistant, Din. Together, they built the company they wished had existed when they first started working together—a virtual assistant matchmaking agency that helps entrepreneurs streamline their operations with effective systems and talented virtual collaborators.
Being diagnosed with ADHD as a young adult changed her life. With newfound insight and understanding, Melody set out to master her brain's unique wiring, creating systems that allowed her to thrive in the "sparkliest" parts of her brain while delegating tasks that drained her. One of the most transformative decisions she made was hiring an Executive Assistant, which expedited her impact by allowing her to focus on the big projects and ideas that energize her.
Through her podcast, The Business Misfits, Melody shares insights from her decades-long business journey and interviews fellow unconventional entrepreneurs to empower others to embrace their inner "Bizfit" and build businesses on their own terms. Her mission is to help purpose-driven business owners craft their path with creativity, intuition, and heart.
Outside of business, Melody is a creative human who loves ALL THE THINGS… friends, AI, singing, bike rides, camping, crafting, ice cream, and building things. She lives in Western Massachusetts with her husband Matt, their children Sophia and Max, and their dog Shaun.
You can find all her things on www.melodythings.com
Transcript
You know, social media platforms have changed so, so rapidly
Speaker:and do change so rapidly over courses of weeks,
Speaker:months, years is like a huge stretch. One
Speaker:interesting thing to note is that it used to be more
Speaker:significant. It used to matter more to creators, how many followers
Speaker:you had. Now that has turned into much more of a vanity metric. Why
Speaker:do I say that? Because pretty much all platforms, I think at
Speaker:this point no longer show your
Speaker:content to your followers. They have different algorithms.
Speaker:I know, but now that's very challenging when people say, well,
Speaker:you have X amount of followers, why do your videos have only this view? Or
Speaker:what? And it's because hello business
Speaker:human. Are you a misfit? A person who wants to
Speaker:make a difference in this business world? Are
Speaker:you one of the unconventional, the visionaries, the quiet
Speaker:innovators, the heart centered leaders, the purpose driven, the
Speaker:community builders, the givers? Then
Speaker:you are my people. I used to think business was
Speaker:a secret formula to be discovered and followed. But now I know it isn't a
Speaker:set of rules. It's an exciting creative adventure and
Speaker:I want to be on that adventure with you. I am your lady of business.
Speaker:Melody Edwards, welcome to the Business
Speaker:Misfits podcast. Why, hello
Speaker:Bisfit. It is I, Melody, your lady of business. And today I am
Speaker:talking with Jen Bupre, otherwise known as
Speaker:Rosette, that's her stage name. She is an amazing
Speaker:vocal coach, singer, performer. She's really
Speaker:popular in Asia right now. It's an interesting story, but
Speaker:also I met her in a very weird way and we talk about
Speaker:that in this episode. I'm not even going to go into too many details, but
Speaker:because I think you're just going to enjoy the conversation. So let's just get
Speaker:into it. Here's my conversation with Jen Beaupre.
Speaker:Welcome. I'm happy you're here. We are who we are on this
Speaker:podcast. So really the first question I always ask
Speaker:everybody is do you feel like you are a business misfit?
Speaker:Wow, that is kind of a hard question. Yes, is the answer. And
Speaker:I'm going to give you the because I think that
Speaker:it feels like to be wildly successful in
Speaker:business, there is somewhat some
Speaker:formula and I feel like I sort
Speaker:of refuse to follow it. Which is sort of a sad statement I've
Speaker:just made. Right. I've said to be wildly successful, you have to do this. I
Speaker:won't do it. But I think that while we all want to be
Speaker:wildly successful, we also all want to be wildly happy and
Speaker:wildly free and, and wildly excited about the thing that we're doing.
Speaker:So I don't know. Do you think it's possible I'm gonna put this back to
Speaker:you. Yeah. You just gave the definition that I would like. I actually don't
Speaker:believe that anymore. I do think there are things in business that you should
Speaker:know. I don't necessarily believe that it's a step by step process
Speaker:for success because that's what I was sold for a long time.
Speaker:And I've really chased the understanding, the business formula thing.
Speaker:And what I found in the end is that nobody really knows what they're doing.
Speaker:They understand how other people have done it. And there's so many ways
Speaker:to do it. I think there is some
Speaker:standard formula type stuff. We're not standard.
Speaker:And filling in those blanks is a very
Speaker:unique process for each of our businesses. Yeah. Well,
Speaker:you have to be creative. I think of business misfits as people.
Speaker:Like, there's so many definitions. For me, I think business sounds
Speaker:very serious. It's very based on transactions,
Speaker:money, you know, and for me, I really feel a sense of purpose in the
Speaker:work that I do. I want money. And also, I don't think I can
Speaker:do it just like, otherwise I'd have a job in some corporate world and it
Speaker:would be fine for me. I need that purpose. I want to help people. I
Speaker:want to serve. I want to have a legacy. Like, there's a lot of other
Speaker:things that go into it. And I think you are
Speaker:definitely a misfit. Yeah. And I think that
Speaker:people go into business for lots of different reasons, and they're all good
Speaker:reasons. Making money is a good reason. Having a legacy is a good
Speaker:reason. Because you enjoy doing the thing you do is a good reason.
Speaker:All of the above is even better. But I think
Speaker:how we stack those things that I just
Speaker:listed kind of determines how we run at it.
Speaker:Yeah. I think I want to talk about how you've been in business a long
Speaker:time, the business of your voice and teaching
Speaker:people. I think of you as a voice, but really you're
Speaker:more of a vocal teacher and instructor. You're both things,
Speaker:but people might know you because of your vocal instruction.
Speaker:What would you say that you're known for in your business world?
Speaker:Depends who's looking. Yeah. Because I've
Speaker:been building my career for a quarter of a century,
Speaker:and in that time, there's people who have gotten to know me as an artist,
Speaker:as a coach, as a speaker, as a
Speaker:cheerleader of all things vocal. So it depends
Speaker:how you kind of came into my world. And a songwriter.
Speaker:Yeah. As well. Yeah. And I haven't talked to A lot
Speaker:of people who have come from the creative side of work.
Speaker:And so the fact that you've been able to make your living off of your
Speaker:art in a way, even though it's not fully off of your art
Speaker:necessarily, like your songs all the time or whatever, but that's
Speaker:like really magical that you have been able to do the thing that you really
Speaker:love and make your living off of it. I'm glad you said that
Speaker:because that used to be a pain point that I
Speaker:almost felt like, I can't say that I'm in my
Speaker:passion, I'm not making money the right way to say
Speaker:that I'm doing the thing. If it's not off of being a
Speaker:touring artist on stage singing your own songs, which are on the radio,
Speaker:then I failed. But what I have actually made not just
Speaker:peace with, but sometimes love with is that I get to run
Speaker:around talking about the thing. I love sharing it with people who are
Speaker:wildly excited about the thing that I love lifting people up,
Speaker:showing people their own body, their own sparkle, their own magic.
Speaker:Also being able to have my own sparkle
Speaker:witnessed sometimes. Yeah. So it's a fun package.
Speaker:Well, I will say I met you on the Internet and I was just. Not
Speaker:on the Internet. This is the Internet. I met you there. I found
Speaker:you there. You came across my TikTok at some point or
Speaker:something and I was just enthralled by the way that
Speaker:you teach vocal technique and it's
Speaker:so simple and you break down really complicated things into
Speaker:very simple form, which is how my brain handles it
Speaker:best. And so I reached out to you to get a voice lesson
Speaker:and then you did not reach back for quite
Speaker:a while. You're revealing all my dirty secrets. Go on.
Speaker:Well, it's not though. It's like. It's kind of amazing because
Speaker:so many artists, you know, when you're doing this thing in any
Speaker:business, you reach a point if you're the person who does the thing, like you
Speaker:teach the lessons or there's a point where you reach capacity and
Speaker:you can't also answer the emails and do all the other parts of business.
Speaker:And it was really cool. I swear that I've never done that
Speaker:before, but I just really. And I was like, she is going to think
Speaker:I'm insane, but I don't know what I even said. What did I say to
Speaker:you, Jen, in that email? You sent a loom video. And I will tell
Speaker:you that you were a breath of fresh air and such relief. Even though
Speaker:I didn't believe because you were telling me like Hey, I can help you with
Speaker:this. And I was like, probably not, but I love that someone thinks so. But
Speaker:I also just want to say that you came into my world when
Speaker:my online traffic was really accelerated.
Speaker:So my business had been building for simmering for many years.
Speaker:And then I made one TikTok video about coaching and
Speaker:I don't know, like Papa algorithm smiled upon me on that
Speaker:fateful day in 2021. And that video just
Speaker:had such great reach. But that means that the systems I
Speaker:had set up were very not going to work
Speaker:with the amount of traffic. My schedules were in
Speaker:my top drawer that I printed out at the beginning of each week by filling
Speaker:little names into a template on imac pages program.
Speaker:And I didn't have systems, I just was like,
Speaker:oh, this person wants to sing this week. I'll put them into this
Speaker:3:30 spot. Well, you had systems. They worked for
Speaker:only you though. They weren't going to be expandable. And
Speaker:I also spent a good chunk of my career coaching, mostly
Speaker:in person locally, which is fine. There's a magic
Speaker:to that too. There's something really rooted and really wonderful about being
Speaker:integrated in the community that way. But I have to also
Speaker:admit that interacting with people internationally is real fun
Speaker:and I love working with people with different accents and it's been a
Speaker:blast. But you're right, they couldn't get onto my pages
Speaker:calendar. Yeah. With me data entering them, the
Speaker:emails. My life changed because of TikTok for sure. I think. And
Speaker:I don't know how far after, I don't even know at what point
Speaker:between the time I wrote you how long that had been going on, but I
Speaker:think it took you a couple weeks to get back to me. Did it take
Speaker:a week or two? Well, more from. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker:But the funny thing is, in my view, you were so
Speaker:professional. You were like probably
Speaker:unattainable for me to get a lesson. That's how I felt and I bet you
Speaker:that's how. But it's true. You probably don't see it that way because
Speaker:you're you, but because you were online invisible in a different
Speaker:way and I didn't know you or anything. I just assumed, wow, I want to
Speaker:at least try. It would be like my dream to get her to listen to
Speaker:my voice, which is somewhat my insecurity as well. You know, I've had
Speaker:a lot of things with singing, but I'm also like you. I'm stubborn and
Speaker:I want to push through the pain and figure it out, you know, even if
Speaker:it's uncomfortable. But you did finally get back to me. And
Speaker:I was also really underwhelmed by your pricing. I think back then
Speaker:I thought you were undervaluing your price, but it was because you were coming
Speaker:from. And this happens in business. It's happened to me so many times.
Speaker:When you've been trotting along for so long, you kind of
Speaker:go with what's worked in that scenario. And then
Speaker:suddenly you had this thing happen, this explosion, and you
Speaker:were still using the old things. Your mind was still there, but you were in
Speaker:a different place. Yeah, it was a really
Speaker:interesting supply and demand. Like, I learned for reals how
Speaker:supply and demand works. Like, I watched it unfold and as I
Speaker:adjusted my price, I found the thresholds where it
Speaker:was still too much and I was able to kind of
Speaker:play with that. But I'm kind of going to go sideways from what you were
Speaker:saying. But the algorithms on social media platform are forever
Speaker:changing. And when you are an online creator and service
Speaker:provider, which is still part of what I do, you are kind
Speaker:of sort of at the whim of algorithms. Now, I'm not saying that it is
Speaker:not my responsibility to find out new and exciting
Speaker:ways to engage people. It is my responsibility as a creator.
Speaker:Yeah, yeah. If you want eyeballs. If you want eyeballs. And algorithm it is.
Speaker:But all I'm saying is that the algorithm and the quality of your content
Speaker:and that whole magic can really dial the knob up and down
Speaker:rapidly of the traffic coming into your world. So that's just a
Speaker:factor that anybody else out there I'm sure will be like, nodding their head.
Speaker:Because me too. Yeah, yeah. Well. And what I
Speaker:learned. Okay, I need to stop think I'm not good. I am
Speaker:weaker in the areas of digital marketing because that's not something I
Speaker:ever had to do. It was very organic for me. So it's taken me a
Speaker:long time to understand that you do things like
Speaker:create things that people have to sign up for so that you can get their
Speaker:email address so that when the algorithm changes, you are not
Speaker:beholden to them. And oh yeah, I have
Speaker:not practiced that very well. I mean, I'm way better now,
Speaker:but that's not a normal, natural thing that we would think of as human. You
Speaker:know, like, that's marketing. So the fact that you are doing the
Speaker:thing you love, but then you also have to learn and figure out all of
Speaker:these other things. Plus you have to be a digital marketing expert in a way,
Speaker:as a content creator, that's like a lot to.
Speaker:Yeah. Yep. It's really overwhelming, but it is a
Speaker:very exciting game to play
Speaker:if you're willing to kind of bob and weave. But,
Speaker:you know, social media platforms have changed so, so
Speaker:rapidly and do change so rapidly over
Speaker:courses of weeks, months, years is like a huge stretch.
Speaker:One interesting thing to note is that it used to
Speaker:be more significant. It used to matter more to creators how
Speaker:many followers you had. Now that has turned into much more of a vanity
Speaker:metric. Why do I say that? Because pretty much all platforms,
Speaker:I think, at this point, no longer show
Speaker:your content to your followers. They have different
Speaker:algorithms. I know, but now that's very challenging
Speaker:when people say, well, you have X amount of followers. Why do your videos have
Speaker:only this view? Or what? And it's because you're not showing
Speaker:my 700,000 followers my video. Now, I'm not saying they
Speaker:would or wouldn't like it, but you're also not showing them, and they've
Speaker:expressed that they want to see it, but you're still not showing them. So
Speaker:that's challenging. What do you think the game is in that? Like, to me,
Speaker:if I want to see your content and if it's not coming up, I
Speaker:assume you're not making it because otherwise, since I'm following you, it should come up.
Speaker:As a creator. It's so crazy when someone says in the comment section, oh, I'm
Speaker:so glad you're making content again. I've really missed seeing you. And I'm like, holy.
Speaker:I've been posting three times a week for the. But I think that it
Speaker:is money. I think that it is the platforms wanting to monetize
Speaker:everywhere they can. So that's free, right? If they're showing
Speaker:to these 700,000 people, that's really lovely.
Speaker:Not free marketing. We've kind of earned it, you know? Yeah, I believe we've earned
Speaker:it for real. But for them, they're like, oh, no, you have to
Speaker:pay to show anybody. Oh, they followed you. Doesn't matter. You still have to pay
Speaker:to show them now. So we.
Speaker:Yeah, I've even shied away from that because on my
Speaker:TikTok account, when I really was trying for a while and I
Speaker:only tried really hard for 30 days, and then I got it to like
Speaker:7,000 followers, but I was really consistent. And then it
Speaker:never went higher than like 7,600 for like two
Speaker:years. And I was, no, it's hard, it's hard. And then I was like, well,
Speaker:why am I even bothering with this? Like, but let me tell you, though. Yeah.
Speaker:Keep in mind. Yes. To what you just said. It is like Exhausting, considering four
Speaker:people see it or whatever. Right. But also my following,
Speaker:actually both my followings for two different reasons, but my following
Speaker:on TikTok and my following on Instagram, both grew so rapidly in a lump
Speaker:sum that. That is also difficult because when people come into your
Speaker:world for one reason, they don't have a big
Speaker:picture of what it is that you do. So you can really be
Speaker:susceptible to unfollows or people being like, who is this? What is this? Why did
Speaker:I follow this person? So social media is wild. Yeah.
Speaker:A wild west of business. It is. And
Speaker:I'm always wondering, like, who's the actual expert that I should be following and learning
Speaker:about this from? Which is probably the social media
Speaker:company itself. Because there's always people in marketing who are like, I am the
Speaker:expert at this thing. I know. Exactly. Yeah. But their perspective
Speaker:is also skewed. Yeah. If you follow what's his
Speaker:noodle of Instagram, he does go in his stories and answer a lot of questions,
Speaker:which can be helpful. But as a creator, that's really interacting with the
Speaker:app. Some of his answers, it's like, that's really not our experience, but thank
Speaker:you. Right. For that. So I think there are some really great
Speaker:experts. There actually really are. Yeah. But it
Speaker:really depends on what's your niche, what's the competition like in your
Speaker:niche? What are the copyright liabilities in your niche? It's
Speaker:all different. Well. And you are focused. I wasn't.
Speaker:That was one thing. I didn't want to focus on one specific thing at
Speaker:that time. And so that is not always a good thing. Well,
Speaker:I don't want your mouth. Yeah. I want to talk about my dating life. I
Speaker:want to talk about, like, funny shit. I see. But should that
Speaker:be another channel? I am starting to think that I need to include
Speaker:it on my current channel, especially considering they're not showing each of our stuff to
Speaker:our followers anyway. Yeah, I think you should. Yeah. Maybe
Speaker:mix it up a little bit. Because you're just talking to whoever is watching that
Speaker:video. Yeah, sort of. And the majority of your videos, what do
Speaker:you usually focus on? Vocal coaching and my
Speaker:vocal performance, which is tied into vocal coaching.
Speaker:So I like to demonstrate techniques and explain what I'm
Speaker:demonstrating. I really like making coaching videos, but in
Speaker:2021 and 2022, they were getting a lot of traction.
Speaker:I've even recycled some of those videos and they just don't get views
Speaker:now. So people's taste changes. I
Speaker:personally think these apps are always kind of steering people in different directions.
Speaker:I mean, well, singers are very passionate about singing and
Speaker:learning to sing better. I don't think that's changed. I'm guessing that
Speaker:the audience, like you said, has. Yeah. And I think
Speaker:it matters who's watching your content. And you gotta remember that all
Speaker:the apps. This is a strange conversation. I apologize for kind of going
Speaker:down the social media road, but. No, I love this stuff because this is what
Speaker:people also need to know in business. Well, apps are in the business
Speaker:of lifting up creators who keep people on the
Speaker:apps longer, so they
Speaker:will steer people in the direction of where they're going
Speaker:to hang out a long time. So if they don't
Speaker:think that you are that person, they're not going
Speaker:to prioritize your content. Whether they're right or wrong, I don't know. They
Speaker:are smart. Like, AI algorithms are pretty smart. But, I mean,
Speaker:it is strange. I've actually posted a video that had 2.2
Speaker:million views on Instagram and I reposted it
Speaker:and got 11,000 views. The same piece of
Speaker:content. So, yes, people's taste changes and
Speaker:people's, whatever, the zeitgeist kind of changes, but that's pretty
Speaker:drastic. Yeah, that's drastic. I mean, it's. Yeah, it's
Speaker:different audience. Do you know who's seeing your stuff? Because I don't. I wouldn't
Speaker:know how to look. Yeah, I mean, you can see what region they're in,
Speaker:what age they are, details kind of a little bit about who they are. But
Speaker:I will say that's one of my failures, is I've never really
Speaker:wanted to look too much into that. Only because I just want to make what
Speaker:I think is important, and that's a shortcoming of mine. Wait. No, it is
Speaker:not. I do not agree with that. Well, it depends how you look at it.
Speaker:Well, you're. It's a weaker area. None of us are good at everything.
Speaker:Like, you should be doing only the things you're strong at to begin with and
Speaker:then have somebody else deal with that stuff for you or learn
Speaker:it, you know, because if you're not interested in it, it's like taking away your
Speaker:energy. But you would save your energy if you were
Speaker:potentially targeting the people who want to hear what you have to say. So it's
Speaker:like, it's a little bit of a cycle. But I am stubborn in
Speaker:that when I am interacting with clients, when I am
Speaker:coaching people and I see what is elevating someone or
Speaker:lots of people, or changing people's lives or the way they move in their body
Speaker:or their voice, that's the stuff I'm excited to talk about, whether it
Speaker:translates or not, or I'm just like, this is what people need to know. And
Speaker:that can be a difficult thing for service provider creators because we know
Speaker:what actually changes people's lives. But it's not always in a 32nd.
Speaker:Yeah. Because that's your responsibility as a content creator, is to give you a 30
Speaker:second shot that's going to woo. But the good juicy stuff isn't always
Speaker:30 seconds long. I'm not good. I just thought again, because I did start
Speaker:another page focused more on business misfits on TikTok. But then
Speaker:I spent a bunch of time last year just talking about my hysterectomy
Speaker:and that got a lot of views because nobody was talking about it. And then
Speaker:I was like, oh, but that's not business. But also I really want to talk
Speaker:about this thing because I wish I had known more. And thousands of
Speaker:comments and people just really trying to understand for themselves and what they
Speaker:were about to go through or is what they're experiencing normal? I don't know. I'm
Speaker:just telling you what I experienced. People tap into passion easily.
Speaker:And you're also talking to half the world's population with your
Speaker:thing. Totally. That affects half the world's population or that
Speaker:topic touches. So that's great that you did that.
Speaker:I think I heard it's a crazy amount of people. Like one third of every
Speaker:woman is going to have a hysterectomy before 60,
Speaker:which is crazy because if it's that big, why do we not
Speaker:know about these things? Well, just because perimenopause. Are we
Speaker:the first generation talking about perimenopause? Because I've never
Speaker:heard this term until like a few years ago and now it's
Speaker:everywhere. And I think that we're the first people to kind of pop
Speaker:the cherry of saying these things. Well, actually
Speaker:I'm mad. I'm mad that nobody told me. Yeah, I'm
Speaker:mad too, because we were told that menopause is challenging.
Speaker:Even that's been kind of quiet. Yeah, it was like we're more aware of
Speaker:that. So we're all waiting for a certain. This one moment when
Speaker:suddenly everything is over, right? Yes, but like your late
Speaker:30s and early 40s, your whole world is like
Speaker:crazy. But nobody said it would be. Nobody's explaining it.
Speaker:Nobody warned. Well, there is now. There actually is a lot more
Speaker:stuff now. Thank you to TikTok and
Speaker:social media. I mean, that's really what it was. And I think it was post
Speaker:pandemic it really became very popular because women
Speaker:were talking to each other and talking about. Yeah. So I
Speaker:don't know, I think that I'm really grateful for social media, for that kind of
Speaker:conversation so that I can talk about this on a podcast and I'm not like,
Speaker:embarrassed about it or something, you know, dude, social media. Is the best
Speaker:word, worst thing ever. Yeah, it is. It really is. It is
Speaker:the coolest, worst thing. Yeah. Well, one of the other questions
Speaker:I always like to ask, there's only two of them really, but it's, do you
Speaker:struggle with imposter syndrome? Has anybody ever said no?
Speaker:Yes. Really? Who are these people?
Speaker:They're very confident and also maybe a little
Speaker:spectrumy. I think that matters.
Speaker:Maybe. I also have a theory that we're all little
Speaker:spectrumy. Well, we are. All of us are, I would say more
Speaker:spectrumy. Yeah. Fair. Although
Speaker:sometimes I look at my life and I'm like, oh,
Speaker:I have never been okay with touching velvet. And you know,
Speaker:every time I think, so some people like touching soft
Speaker:things. Weird. Sometimes sounds and noises make
Speaker:me, like, light my hair on fire and run out of a room. And I
Speaker:think we all have those sensitivities. And I do that. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway,
Speaker:that's not your question. Yes. The answer is yes. Imposter syndrome
Speaker:is legit. I think many musicians,
Speaker:creatives, business people, like, I'm kind of surprised anybody
Speaker:has said no. Who are they? What do they do? I'm serious.
Speaker:I mean, usually it's going to be somebody who's coaching.
Speaker:I mean, I can only think of a couple times. Most everybody says
Speaker:yes if they're my people. And it's not because I want them to not.
Speaker:I would love it. I love it when somebody says no. But I
Speaker:have to say there's something special about them. You know, it's not
Speaker:the ego. It's something else that's special because
Speaker:that's a superpower, Mel. Yeah, it is. Yeah. That's a full on
Speaker:superpower. Yeah. Yeah. And I think, how do you deal with it? Because you are
Speaker:so confident in your presentation, in your videos.
Speaker:Like, everything about you exudes accidental
Speaker:confidence if it's that, but you just really are confident. There
Speaker:are pieces of me that are really confident because I'm really excited about what I
Speaker:do and I've done it a long time and I'm really explorative and really
Speaker:curious and I love connecting with people and I'm always
Speaker:learning. But I will say that something I've used and I
Speaker:think that there's an argument that this is not healthy. And there's an argument that
Speaker:this is healthy. But I do try and keep my nose in my
Speaker:own business. And that is something that I took
Speaker:on several years ago because it's very easy to drown
Speaker:in all the other people accomplishing all the things and knowing all
Speaker:the things and achieving all the things. And that my
Speaker:success or wherever I am on my journey, I do
Speaker:have to keep in mind that it has nothing to do with other people's success
Speaker:and their journey. And we're all like, doing our thing. But I
Speaker:don't need to always stare at everyone's successful all the time.
Speaker:It's hard. I have gotten into the habit of hiding people
Speaker:for 30 days at a time that. When I can't see when
Speaker:they're doing, because it really does affect me. And it's not jealousy.
Speaker:It's none of that stuff. It's. I just know that I am on a wave
Speaker:of emotion every day. When you're a creative person, you have that high
Speaker:and you can do anything. But there's also the crash that comes at times
Speaker:for me at least. And so I kind of protect myself from that
Speaker:by. By just giving myself time off and then doing
Speaker:it again. You know, I think I will say
Speaker:that sometimes, at the least, I'm distracted
Speaker:by it. Yeah. And at the worst, I am jealous of it.
Speaker:It's. It's a gross thing to say out loud, but both of
Speaker:those things aren't productive. But I do think
Speaker:there's something to be said about celebrating each other where and when possible.
Speaker:I agree with that. Where and when possible. Yeah. And sometimes
Speaker:it's the best thing you can do is just keep your eyes on your paper
Speaker:sometimes. Yeah. Well, I mean, because what I do know is that
Speaker:people are great at presenting things online. And
Speaker:one of the things that some people really like about me and some people
Speaker:don't respect about me, I would say, is that I'm really pretty honest
Speaker:and open and vulnerable all the time. When I feel weak
Speaker:about something, or if I feel like this is not my strength, I talk about
Speaker:it because I know everybody goes through those moments. Unfortunately, the
Speaker:audience that I'm selling to in my world tends to
Speaker:be male. And they don't relate to that because that's not emotional.
Speaker:Yeah. It's emotion. And they want their more fact and data
Speaker:and stuff. So I think I've struggled with that. But I
Speaker:also don't not want to be myself. It's interesting. There's
Speaker:so many places I want to go with what you just said. But I will
Speaker:equate what you said kind of to the left. I'll say.
Speaker:For example, when I first started making content, I would use a
Speaker:lot of terminology, as we all do in our own field, as
Speaker:we have come to learn it or use it. But in
Speaker:my world, when you use terminology like mixed voice, head, voice belting,
Speaker:whatever, passaggio, these words, people either
Speaker:don't care or they get extremely wrapped up in the exact
Speaker:definition if you're using it right now. Funny thing is, to me, I'm trying to
Speaker:serve you. This is some free advice for you that you can scroll past or
Speaker:not scroll past, but there's some personality types who want to have
Speaker:pissing contests in the comment section if that word is being used
Speaker:exactly how they have been taught that word. Right. So I kind of equate this
Speaker:to what you said, because different brains receive
Speaker:marketing and information differently. Now, those people,
Speaker:the pissing contest about terminology people, they might be singers,
Speaker:but they're probably not my ideal person.
Speaker:And I've learned from that that it's best anyway
Speaker:to not worry about being so professional and use
Speaker:words that I use, words that matter to me. Like, if you
Speaker:want to explore what a twinkly sound might be, like, I'm your person.
Speaker:That's why you're my person. Yeah. Because that's. The
Speaker:language I would use is like, you know, that twinkly sound that you can make
Speaker:with your voice, you know, like, that's literally what people like me.
Speaker:Because it feels very. I'm musical for sure, but
Speaker:I don't always remember the terminology. Yeah, but. And I would
Speaker:argue again, my people, terminology smurminology. Yeah, we
Speaker:don't care about that. I just want to understand totally. If I say to
Speaker:you, hey, we need to make sure that your riffs are cut
Speaker:with a razor's edge, or I would say, yo, man, you sound a little
Speaker:mushy. Mushy poo poo. Everything's sort of blurring into the next thing. It's a little
Speaker:bit drunk. Let's see if we can straighten that out. That's my language. And I've
Speaker:learned that if I speak that language, I call in my people.
Speaker:You attract your people. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that might be why
Speaker:you make it so easy to understand. It's not for everybody. It's for people
Speaker:like me or people who have a love of understanding. Like, when
Speaker:you did coach me, you actually changed my voice
Speaker:very quickly. You changed my perception of my voice because
Speaker:I'm somebody who always needs some level of validation from an expert.
Speaker:Otherwise, I don't believe it. Right. That is really
Speaker:helpful feedback. And you actually did touch my
Speaker:practice in a really important way in that when
Speaker:people would come to me, like yourself and in your realm where
Speaker:you. Where singers are already really highly functional. Because I cut my teeth
Speaker:on beginners, which many coaches or teachers do, as they
Speaker:are kind of coming up. So I cut my teeth on beginners. So when people
Speaker:started to come to me who were either very
Speaker:talented or had all the raw materials or anything around that,
Speaker:that coming back to your question, the imposter syndrome would come
Speaker:back where I would be like, how am I supposed to help this person? They
Speaker:already sound kind of great. Or, you know, they're already in the pocket. Like, what
Speaker:could I offer this person? And you were one of the people in
Speaker:that chunk of time that reminded me that
Speaker:not everybody needs do Re mi. Not everybody
Speaker:needs to learn how to cut a riff. One of my
Speaker:core needs, as I've established with my
Speaker:coach recently, is witnessing. I need to be witnessed and
Speaker:I need to have the opportunity to witness others. And
Speaker:I know that many people have this need and don't even often know they have
Speaker:this need. But additionally, what you said, because
Speaker:you viewed me as an expert or a knowledgeable
Speaker:person, it mattered to be witnessed and
Speaker:validated. But validated is even. Not even the right word. Just, I like
Speaker:the word witness Sounds a lot nicer than validation. Validation
Speaker:sounds like I'll never believe in my own ability. Or
Speaker:I just always feel like, yeah, it does. It's also like,
Speaker:I know that I have a good voice, but I always
Speaker:really struggled before with the stage fright I call, you know,
Speaker:And I mean, I've done so much work on it over the years, but singing
Speaker:one to one was always very hard for me. And
Speaker:even, like, I don't sing in front of my husband or my kids
Speaker:even now. Yeah. Well, I'm also not singing a lot right now,
Speaker:which I should be, but I have no problem for some reason now going and,
Speaker:you know, standing in front of a stage and singing at a funeral or whatever,
Speaker:because I do more of that kind of stuff and it doesn't scare me anymore.
Speaker:But, you know, it's always a work in progress. But I think the other thing
Speaker:that you really helped me with was the mind stuff that
Speaker:I don't think I understood how much mind stuff is involved with being a
Speaker:singer. And I don't even remember, Jen, was it like I called it my head
Speaker:in my chest voice, But I don't think that you called it thick and thin.
Speaker:Whatever you want. Yeah. I really struggled to find those
Speaker:places. And I would strain my voice or whatever it was as I was trying
Speaker:to find my higher voice. I don't really think you did.
Speaker:I don't really think. I think that. What did I do? Unsure.
Speaker:I think that you were just unsure if the thing was working, working. And when
Speaker:we're unsure, we resist ourselves. And then things get uncomfortable when we're
Speaker:resisting just whatever's happening, you know, there's been
Speaker:singers that have sat in front of me, like yourself,
Speaker:who are absolutely gorgeous like yourself, who even say things
Speaker:to me like, well, this other coach told me I'm not breathing well, and therefore
Speaker:I know I'm not breathing well. And this is wrong. And this is wrong. And
Speaker:I witness them, and I'm like, do you feel broken? Do you
Speaker:sound broken? Because it looks and sounds and feels good to me. And they're like,
Speaker:what? But someone said I was broken, right? Well, we're the people who
Speaker:trust the experts like, we want to. I don't. I know. I know. And
Speaker:the problem is, and I've learned this over the past couple of years, is that
Speaker:anybody who acts very confident and knows something
Speaker:about you that you're not seeing, maybe they are not the
Speaker:expert. Like, we are the experts on ourselves, really. And
Speaker:sometimes other people can tell us they're the expert or that they know
Speaker:something, but in the end, it comes down to us, and we're just
Speaker:getting, like, input from other people when we want it that we can take in.
Speaker:Like last year, I really came to the realization, like, I already know
Speaker:a lot of stuff. I know too much stuff. I don't need to know any
Speaker:more. Stuff this year is all about. I
Speaker:called it unlearning, but really, it's discernment,
Speaker:discerning what's important, what's important, to keep what's not.
Speaker:Yeah. Well, I just want to reiterate that
Speaker:using our voice is for everyone. And whether we're
Speaker:using it in speech or communication or casually or in
Speaker:song, everybody wants
Speaker:to feel like the biggest, most clear, most exciting,
Speaker:most connected version of themselves. And you are a great
Speaker:example of someone who is and was,
Speaker:but had a question mark. And that could be from something
Speaker:internal or that could be. I can't remember. Forgive me.
Speaker:But that could also be from something that has happened to us or something
Speaker:that was said to us. I can't remember. Was that your experience? I don't
Speaker:know. I can't even remember anymore. Yeah, there was
Speaker:probably something. Nobody told me I was a bad Singer at any point.
Speaker:But you might have or you might have witnessed someone's witnessing
Speaker:of you and interpreted however they reacted as something. My parents
Speaker:were both singers and my dad was very much a singer. And so
Speaker:I think. Right. That always was something. Some kids
Speaker:might just be able to go with it. For me, I was somebody who really
Speaker:was shy. A type. Yeah, I was very shy. And
Speaker:also. Anyway, that's what it was. Yeah,
Speaker:I mean, that's where it started. People will come to me and be like,
Speaker:hi, I just love singing so much, but I can't do it. When I was
Speaker:in grade six, in the Christmas pageant, the teacher told
Speaker:me that I was really out of tune and to just say watermelon, watermelon
Speaker:while everybody else sang. And ever since then I just know I'm really bad.
Speaker:And whatever that person's ability is at that point is almost
Speaker:irrelevant to the first fact that they don't feel like they
Speaker:should have permission to use their voice.
Speaker:So I love what I do in that it is all about
Speaker:empowering people to use something that is theirs. And
Speaker:sometimes we forget that we have that tool.
Speaker:Why do you think people in the West. Yeah, in the West. I
Speaker:shouldn't say Canadians. I'll just say Americans for now. You are Canadian though, which is
Speaker:why I keep mentioning Canada. Why do you think it is that we
Speaker:are willing to speak with our speaking voice and less
Speaker:willing to sing with our singing voice? It's very separate to us,
Speaker:it's two separate things. Whereas we've talked about the
Speaker:Philippines. When I visited there, the thing that surprised me the
Speaker:most was everybody sings and everybody loves singing and they
Speaker:acknowledge those two voices almost as I think of it as one.
Speaker:It's just a part of who they are. So I don't know. I have
Speaker:a guess, but I actually will be curious enough to look into
Speaker:this as I state my guess here in the west, you and
Speaker:I are of similar age, we came up a similar generation. And
Speaker:can you verify I'm Canadian, you're American, but can you
Speaker:verify that? When we were young we were kind of taught that
Speaker:classical music is the foundation of singing.
Speaker:Not speaking, not pop, but classical music.
Speaker:And when we use our voice in classical music, it is
Speaker:a lot different than where we speak. So that
Speaker:kind of created a general disconnect in many people's
Speaker:minds and hearts of how their voice is used musically
Speaker:and how their voice is used in day to day speech life.
Speaker:Crying, grieving, yelling at your dog lovingly.
Speaker:So I think I would wonder if in the Philippines they
Speaker:maybe didn't do such a heavy lean into classical music. I
Speaker:could be wrong. I could be totally wrong. But I think that that factor here
Speaker:in the west was a big thing, and that's. There's still
Speaker:a school of thought that pop coaches and pop singers get a lot of pushback
Speaker:on. Classical music is the foundation of all things, and you need to have classical
Speaker:music, but classical vocals sit in a place that is
Speaker:different than where we speak. Right. I don't. I don't
Speaker:speak like this. I don't speak like this. Right. I'm, like,
Speaker:rooted here. And, yeah, when I sing pop, I'm in the same place.
Speaker:Whoa. Yeah. Yeah. It's all the same place in. Not
Speaker:all. There's, of course, many shades of gray. But I think that the
Speaker:push into classical music made people see those things really
Speaker:differently. Connected. Interesting. That's my guess. Yeah, I wouldn't have thought of
Speaker:that. Now, I think we both need to research this point because there's probably
Speaker:a lot of places in the world where people. Well, it's also cultural, too.
Speaker:Like, singing is very joyful in other places. Here
Speaker:it's more competitive. I don't know if you looked at, like, if we're just looking
Speaker:at the West v Maybe versus the Philippines, but it's definitely
Speaker:not something that we've done quite as socially. And when I've been in Asia,
Speaker:there are karaoke. I'm not even going to say bars. They
Speaker:invented it. Palaces. Yes. Oh, yeah. These places are
Speaker:like Caesar's palace in Vegas. But it's
Speaker:karaoke. You can have, like, beautiful meals
Speaker:and there's, like, microphones with little, like, condoms on them
Speaker:so you can share them sanitarily with giant televisions
Speaker:and goblets to drink out of. It's very celebrated in
Speaker:a different social way. And this is just my experience. I also,
Speaker:to be fair, have never really engaged in social singing in the
Speaker:west because I've always pursued it as a career.
Speaker:But I still think that it is of different perception.
Speaker:It is. And we have vocal shame here. I don't think it's
Speaker:looked upon in the same way. Like, even when I lived in Morocco,
Speaker:I'm trying to think of the places where I've lived. People sing there, too, and
Speaker:they don't necessarily have a good voice, but it's a different kind of
Speaker:singing. And I think it's just so culturally ingrained that,
Speaker:you know, people just sing with joy because it's a part of your.
Speaker:Again, I love where I'm from, so I don't want to act
Speaker:like there's anything wrong with here. But we do
Speaker:make things very competitive. So, again, I can't speak to
Speaker:the Philippines. I didn't grow up there. I can't speak to Asia as a whole.
Speaker:I'm constantly learning new things and asking new questions questions and being curious about
Speaker:it. But I do know the West. We do like to make things
Speaker:into competitions. You know, if you look at shows like American
Speaker:Idol and the Voice and all of these shows, we're pitting art against
Speaker:other art. And that's fine. And it's highly
Speaker:entertaining, as those shows have been around for a gazillion years.
Speaker:But it does put people in a different mindset. You know, if I do
Speaker:a reaction video. I did a reaction video recently and talked about cursive
Speaker:singing, which is live changing vowels and
Speaker:adding and subtracting vowel sounds. And people in the comments
Speaker:bless them. Thanks for watching my content. But they'll be like, this is highly
Speaker:damaging to the voice. And this, like, stuff that I'm like, where'd you hear
Speaker:that? That's not true. And that's weird. And I can tell that you've watched
Speaker:these shows and you're now an armchair expert. Which thing with singing
Speaker:is we all have a voice, so we all kind of are our own little
Speaker:expert. I can't tell you. You don't know anything about the voice. You do. You
Speaker:use yours every day. But when it comes into the world of
Speaker:singing. What do you mean that's harmful? It's harmful to change the vowels.
Speaker:No, it isn't. Where did you get this? How did this happen? So
Speaker:we've now created this sphere of judgment and people who
Speaker:believe they know things that are kind of. No,
Speaker:not really. You know, just because you don't like the sound of something doesn't mean
Speaker:it's bad, wrong or dangerous. Right. People are like, it's damaging. This person
Speaker:needs to really be careful. They're going to lose their voice from changing the vowels.
Speaker:What? Well, and there's so many different ways of singing around the world.
Speaker:Yes. That are very unique and not like the way we sing
Speaker:here. So, Yeah, I don't know. I think everybody's an
Speaker:armchair expert at everything nowadays. So that's what TikTok
Speaker:and the Internet has done. You know, if you watch enough videos on dentistry. Well,
Speaker:give me my own kit. I'm gonna open my practice. Yeah,
Speaker:it's true. So can you tell me a little bit? Tell the
Speaker:audience about your adventures in Asia recently
Speaker:and kind of like what you've been doing there? And
Speaker:I don't know, it's such an interesting experience that you've
Speaker:had. Yep. It's one I'm really grateful for. I
Speaker:have a reaction show. That's how it started as a reaction show,
Speaker:where I initially started reacting to Chinese,
Speaker:Mandarin, and Cantonese singers. We have expanded
Speaker:into some Filipino singers, some Korean singers.
Speaker:But what it has allowed me to do is learn more
Speaker:about different languages and cultures and
Speaker:instruments and, I mean, it's taught me so much
Speaker:about how similar we are, how we all love to love
Speaker:art together. And to be quite honest,
Speaker:it's competitive there, too. People love to pit. It's just
Speaker:such human nature. We love to pit art against art. We just do.
Speaker:We just do. Yeah. But it's been a really neat process. I think we always
Speaker:have. What do you think you've learned the most about,
Speaker:you know, for instance, Chinese or Mandarin singers that
Speaker:is so different Because I've heard that type of music. It's so
Speaker:different from the way that we sing. Yeah, well, one of
Speaker:the most cool things I've learned, you know, whatever culture or language
Speaker:or country or whatever we've grown up in, we easily
Speaker:think that that's how everybody. That our taste is everybody's
Speaker:taste, and it's super not true. One of the biggest. If
Speaker:I had to make a really sweeping statement, and there's always, again, all
Speaker:kinds of shades of gray, but in a sweeping statement. People
Speaker:here have really valued big,
Speaker:bold vocals with riffs and runs and
Speaker:stuff like that, whereas with Mandarin singers, they generally
Speaker:prefer it to be sweeter and more gentle, more
Speaker:subtle. And even in songwriting, it's very different songwriting.
Speaker:In the west, we have really, like, strong, repetitive, shorter
Speaker:hooks. In Mandarin singing, they like really longer
Speaker:lines of poetry. And also the Mandarin
Speaker:language is such that they will almost always write the lyrics on
Speaker:the screen because you need lyric reference because there's words that
Speaker:sound so similar. Like, it's very fascinating. Interesting. Yeah,
Speaker:it sounds very complicated. Yeah, it is. It is neat. It's really neat.
Speaker:Yeah. Well, that's very cool.
Speaker:When I started writing songs when I was 14
Speaker:and was able to basically present my
Speaker:inner thoughts to people and have them
Speaker:witness and relate and connect,
Speaker:that is when I was like, oh, I don't know if I want to be
Speaker:a doctor. I think I want to connect with people like this.
Speaker:It's also so scary. I'm a songwriter, too, and I am
Speaker:always terrified to release a song into the world, like, It's My
Speaker:Baby, because nobody is always going to like your
Speaker:stuff. Right. People have different tastes, and so it's so
Speaker:Sensitive and so personal, at least to me, when I put something out into
Speaker:the world that I almost do it without pride
Speaker:because I'm scared of. I relate to that. You know what I mean? Like,
Speaker:yeah. And I think that, you know, what makes a good musician even
Speaker:more predominantly than their ability is their
Speaker:taste. And that's the tricky thing, is for most of
Speaker:us, our discernment and taste
Speaker:is at a higher level than our ability to actually create
Speaker:the stuff. And that might sound like a harsh, harsh
Speaker:reality, but that is sort of a reality,
Speaker:whether it's the time and the space and the money and the expertise
Speaker:that we've been able to surround ourself with to produce that art.
Speaker:But those are all factors. But for people like you and I,
Speaker:we know what's good. And by good, I mean
Speaker:bass level, in tune, sound, rhythm, high production value,
Speaker:blah, blah, blah. And then on the next level, we also know what's trending
Speaker:because we like what's trending. So when we create something,
Speaker:we can run it through both of those metrics. Is this in tune? Is it
Speaker:rhythmically sound? Is the production value good? Blah, blah, blah, blah. But then this is
Speaker:the doozy. Well, this doesn't sound like Sabrina Carpenter or
Speaker:Ed Sheeran or Beyonce or Blue. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. We
Speaker:know that sound because we like that sound. But that doesn't mean we're capable of
Speaker:making. Making that sound. That doesn't mean that that's what our art is or our
Speaker:budget is or our access is. So we are
Speaker:putting out art that we actually know isn't.
Speaker:I don't know the thing. Yeah, well, for me, the other
Speaker:thing is I have to get it out. Like, I've had certain songs have sat
Speaker:in me half unfinished for years, and then
Speaker:suddenly it'll just be done and I'll pay to go into a
Speaker:studio and just try to get it out. Because it's almost torture
Speaker:to keep it inside of me. It shouldn't be, but. Because I don't do it
Speaker:as a job and I don't, like, do it. A lot, but it should be
Speaker:torture. It should be torture. I think that's the best mechanism. No, no,
Speaker:I just think you should be tortured about not putting it out because. Yeah,
Speaker:well, not. You should be. But I think that that mechanism of
Speaker:being like, yeah, if you weren't,
Speaker:you would have no burning desire and it would just sit in, blah, blah, blah.
Speaker:So somehow your inner thing has to get you to.
Speaker:It's telling you, this is what you need, this is what's going to be satisfying
Speaker:to you. So maybe you can make that voice be a little bit more loving.
Speaker:But I think it's an important voice. I think I heard somebody once
Speaker:say, and I don't know if it was an artist or a singer, but they
Speaker:said they feel like sometimes lyrics come to them,
Speaker:and if they don't capture them at that very moment, they fly away to somebody
Speaker:else. And that's happened to me so many times, so I have, like,
Speaker:tons of one liners all over the place. How do you write
Speaker:music? How do you write your songs? Well, I'm embarrassed a little bit to
Speaker:say that songwriting is something that I loved so much in the beginning,
Speaker:but it became really tortured for me because of what I
Speaker:actually just described. I was interacting with really
Speaker:great singers, and I was studying the best pop music,
Speaker:and that's not what I was creating. So it felt like
Speaker:I don't want to create it because it's not this. So as my
Speaker:career unfolded, songwriting got deprioritized more and more
Speaker:and more and more. You know, there's only so many hours in a day and
Speaker:days in a week, and I leaned into other things. So I still love songwriting.
Speaker:And I'll tell you, I love having songs, but I'm a little tortured when it
Speaker:comes to creating them. But I did put one out today. Please go listen to
Speaker:it. You did here? Yeah. Okay, well, I'm gonna link to it. I didn't even
Speaker:know that, Jen. You didn't tell me, so now I know.
Speaker:Yeah, it's called Here here. Okay, I'm gonna
Speaker:listen to it and I'm gonna put the link to the podcast. Thanks. Well,
Speaker:I think we've reached the end of the podcast, where I ask you
Speaker:a series of very simple questions that will define you for
Speaker:the rest of your life. So there's no pressure. Yeah. All you have to do
Speaker:is answer the questions very quickly. First thought. It actually doesn't define you,
Speaker:but whatever your gut tells you. Okay. Okay. Ready? Early
Speaker:bird or night owl? Night owl. Introvert or extrovert?
Speaker:Introvert. More time or more money?
Speaker:No. Type A or type add?
Speaker:Type A thousand. Saver or spender? No,
Speaker:I'm saver. You are a saver. Workaholic or recovering
Speaker:workaholic? These are hard. My people
Speaker:would say I'm a workaholic. People would say I'm a workaholic. I would say that.
Speaker:We wouldn't. We can never work hard enough. Correct. That's why I'm a recovering
Speaker:workaholic. Adventure or relaxing? I would like to
Speaker:relax into the adventures. Things or
Speaker:experiences? I would like to have things so I can do the
Speaker:experiences. Really? You're really cheating.
Speaker:You are totally cheating. Phone call or text?
Speaker:Phone call. Hashtag. Millennial. Plan ahead or go with the flow?
Speaker:Flow. Hands on or a delegator? Touch it.
Speaker:Compete or collaborate? I'm sorry? Compete.
Speaker:It's okay. Sweet or savory?
Speaker:Sweet. Quick thinker or overthinker? Oh, Lord.
Speaker:Over, over, done. You did it. You won.
Speaker:And I know they're easy, but not easy. We're also
Speaker:complicated. We think of ourselves as also complicated. Yeah, we're
Speaker:both of these things. But there's always a base. Like, I am
Speaker:a workaholic who calls herself a recovering workaholic. So
Speaker:I'm both of those things. One time I was playing a gig,
Speaker:and I was on a set break. I overheard somebody say to my sister
Speaker:who was there with me, oh, my gosh, what's it like being
Speaker:close to someone so extroverted? And my
Speaker:sister was like, jen, oh, she's an extrovert for pay.
Speaker:Yes. Oh, my God. And I remember hearing this from, like,
Speaker:around the corner, and I was, like, wheezing, laughing, because I'm like,
Speaker:fair. Fair call. Yeah. I fill my cup
Speaker:in an introverted way. I fill my cup in small groups or alone or quiet
Speaker:times. But I do love to be connected in big
Speaker:ways and on the stage and touching people and connecting with people.
Speaker:But I think ultimately, it's how we fill our cup. And I think I fill
Speaker:my cup in an introverted way. I'm the same way. I
Speaker:can look extroverted. I mean, maybe I'm not, but I am
Speaker:surprised that you say you're an introvert just because
Speaker:visibly, everything about you just is energy. Right.
Speaker:But I think of it as, like, what is draining my energy. I love
Speaker:giving my energy and helping people, but when it's all
Speaker:drained, I'm not an energy vampire. I don't get my energy from stealing
Speaker:other people's. I need to go and reset and spend time
Speaker:alone and do my own thing. Well, we're givers. Yeah, I'm
Speaker:definitely a giver, and you're a giver. We're both kind of coachly
Speaker:in our worlds, and coaching is amazing, and it's such a
Speaker:fulfilling, rewarding way to connect with
Speaker:people. But it empties the cup in a beautiful way,
Speaker:is what it is. Yeah. Well, I love you
Speaker:so much, Jen. I appreciate what you are putting out into the world. I really
Speaker:think that you have a lot of sparkly magic that has touched so
Speaker:many lives. And I feel like, especially
Speaker:in my journey as a singer, just even having a little bit
Speaker:of time with you at the beginning of our relationship, to understand
Speaker:my voice better. Even though it's in me, it's like I get
Speaker:to understand me better because of something that you taught me. So
Speaker:I really appreciate you. Well, I appreciate you back. And you're one
Speaker:sparkly MF too. And you have a beautiful voice and
Speaker:a beautiful heart and are so darn generous. So thank you for all you're
Speaker:putting out in the world too. And thank you on behalf of all of the
Speaker:creatives and entrepreneurs who you've touched. Thank you.
Speaker:Listen Bisfit, if you believe in the mission of this podcast, I need you
Speaker:to like and subscribe right now. Pause this. Go find the podcast.
Speaker:You might already be there, which is is easy. Just go like and subscribe. And
Speaker:if you really, really believe in it and you want bisfits to unite and change
Speaker:the whole business world, please rate it. Rating is the best
Speaker:way to get the word out to attract more like minded misfits like you and
Speaker:me so that we can overthrow the takers of this world who currently
Speaker:dominate the business universe. I know I sound like I'm
Speaker:some courageous lady of business. I am not. I can't do
Speaker:this alone and I don't to want want to. I need you. And we need
Speaker:a coalition of fellow Bisfits. So do it now. The quicker we
Speaker:take action, the quicker we can change our business world.
Speaker:Now let's go do great things and I will see you next week.
Speaker:I'm a misfit. I'm a misfit.
Speaker:I'm a misfit. I'm a misfit.
Speaker:I'm a misfit. I'm.
Speaker:I'm a misfit. I'm a misfit.
